I can understand how they feel about so many teams from schools like ours being brought in for the tournaments. However, if there is a huge number of students wanting to bowl for the school, they should be able to. As long as the athletes are dedicated to putting in practice hours to help better themselves, they should be allowed to compete because they are dedicated to their sport.

A possible solution that would probably upset some bowlers is to save the best bowlers for the bigger tournaments and send the lower bowlers to the tourneys that aren't so big. This way it would let everyone who wants to bowl....bowl. Cutting the number of students in the program to 28 is a little outrageous though.

i agree with steve that the program is too large. Practices are frustrating because there are too many people per pair and it limits how much individual attention we can get with our coaches. But that is more our program than NAIA.
Is 28 the right number of bowlers on a team? I think it depends on the program. Our 28th guy right now is ross who is + in college bowling and we have guys on our B team who finished around that same point in tryouts. We could field a team of guys who are under that 28 man mark and still beat 1/2 the teams in any given tournament. Having a limit on the number of bowlers on a squad would both hurt developmental and make prospects less likely to go to a higher ranked school in fear of being cut or not getting a chance to play. Possibly limiting the college team limit to 28 + any bowlers who can competently justify themselves as not padding the field (maintaining within 15 pins of the field average for example).
Bowling is a sport of the masses based on participation. I can't play in the NBA, NHL or NFL or even enter a PGA tour event, but could pay and bowl the US open. The thing is that a uni may only have 1 football field or ice rink, so only 1 game can be played at once so that could very well play into the limit of one team/school seen in other sports. Bowling alleys have 32+ lanes meaning that that many teams can play at once. Maybe bowling needs to focus on showcasing its strengths and hiding its weaknesses, instead of conforming to the standards of other sports...

I dissagree with steve and everyone else who thinks we should cut. I posted a response on college bowling. I think our practices are fine but they should be timed. I think that the A and B team bowlers should get the first hour to themselves. No coaches bowling, alumni, or random friend or league bowlers. After that first hour then bring on the crowd. I think the bowlers at the top have put in the time to get there so we deserve a little time to work with each other and the coaches without everyone else.

I say we enforce this immediately. How do we determine who is A or B team? well lets just say its the top 16 boys and 8 girls. I am biased because I am currently hanging in the top 16 but I think its very fair. Also, the girls have maybe 15 bowlers on thursdays, Please dont use 8 lanes when this is the case. Not fair for the 50 guys stuck on 6 or 8 lanes.

Im wondering if people are reading all this and dont care, dont have opinions, or dont realize how big of a deal this rule change quite possibly can be. especially to this program. Do none of you players have opinions on this? Like this rule will completly change the dynamics of this program in my opinion and am kinda shocked more people havent expressed there opinon on this forum and/or the college bowling forum.

Im wondering if i can get some more responses from players? Past and present if there are some lurkers from past years checking this...(even tho the past players might not have a good view cause they possibly havent seen how large this program really has become). How bout a girls opinion too? I know this would effect the girls a little less than the guys but still, the girls side is growing at an alarming pace just like the guys and this would def change that as well.

I'd like to express my opinion on this topic since only one other girl has and I've been here for a few years now and have seen the program grow.. Council, you're right; the cut wouldn't effect us girls as much as it would the guys, but we are growing like you said to where it could potentially effect us. I feel that cutting a school's program down to 28 people isn't fair or right for anyone to decide but the school itself. Not everyone has the ability and money to keep a program together as big as ours. I really like the idea that we don't cut anyone for the fact that we are fair and give everyone a chance to bowl collegiately. I like to believe that we also pride ourselves on being
able to afford to have a huge amount of bowlers competing through out the entire season.
Cutting the amount of bowlers would, I think, both help and hurt us. I feel that it'd hurt us because a lot of people look at Lindenwood as being a fair school that allows people of all bowling skill ranges to have a shot at bowling collegiately, which's something I think everyone should experience because it's so awesome. Plus, like on the guys side for example, we have a lot of very talented guys bowling and having the decision to cut to 28 people after tryouts wouldn't be fair.
Tryouts are basically to decide who gets what bowling balls and who goes to WI.. After that, it's all up in the air based on performances.. So if someone who could potentially make top 20 in the nation has a bad tryout and finishes 29 on our team, we'd have to cut them based on the 28 people limit. It's not a fair way to cut bowlers based on 2 weekends of bowling... Especially when you have people, like myself and others who have been here for 3-4 years, who have been here longer and have the advantage at tryouts for knowing how the lanes play and how they tend to break down. I feel that by cutting the program to 28 people, you could potentially cut some very good bowlers, such as the ones mentioned above by Dolph who have made all tourney teams. As for the girls side, we are growing as well and have a lot of very good bowlers. We currently have like 16 girls plus in diff (maybe more, I can't remember off hand so Phil help me out lol), which is awesome.. So having to cut down on the number of bowlers we have would suck as well, especially if we had to cut to like 14 or something because we have less girls (which I doubt would ever happen, but I'm just saying).
As far as how the cut would help us, I feel that it would make the program run smoother as far as practices go and as far as traveling goes. Practices on Tuesday and Thursday nights can be a nightmare sometimes. The fact that we have so many bowlers and not enough lanes at night to practice on sucks. Tuesday nights I feel like I can only throw 1 shot every 10 minutes because of the overcrowdedness on the pair. I agree with what the guys said about making it to where the first hour should be dedicated to the A and B teams or top 16 for each. I feel by doing that, the practices would run smoother in general and people would feel like they actually got some things accomplished at practice. Then the rest of the time could be open to all the bowlers for the fact that the top 16 or whatever would more than likely leave after practicing for a full 2 hours or what not. Half the time, I leave upset and frustrated because I'm there for 2 hours or more and feel like I got 20 minutes worth of good practice in.
As far as traveling goes, it's an absolute nightmare.. The fact that we say we're leaving at 3 and never leave until at least 4 is ridiculous. It's been like this ever since I've been here and I don't understand why it's so hard for people to show up on time unless they're in class. I'm the type of person that gets to places a half hour before because I don't like being late, so maybe because that's the way I am, I just don't grasp the concept of showing up late, I don't know. But by having 85+ bowlers, it makes it very hard to travel and get everything settled. If we cut down on the number of teams we brought, I feel that we would leave faster and closer to the scheduled time. Also, I do feel that going to tournaments when we make up half the field isn't fair to other schools. Yes, I don't think we should have cuts, but we should limit the amount of teams we bring. As to what Joe was saying, I feel that by bringing the better teams to the bigger and more important tournaments is what needs to be done, which is what we do. I would suggest splitting up teams and saying A and B teams or top half teams go to this tourney and the next one the other half goes, but the only concern I have there is people not getting enough games in to be considered for a chance at the All American teams at the end of the year.. Plus, I feel everyone should get a fair shot to bowl on as many different patterns as possible. I'm not exactly sure how you could go about making sure everyone got to bowl at least the minimum requirement of games in though.
Either way, we're stuck because we have a lot of talented bowlers and by having a cut, it could end up screwing over a lot of people. The only plus about cuts is the practices are more functional and the traveling isn't as hectic, but overall I feel that by making a cut would hurt our program. I feel like I'm starting to repeat myself so I think I'll end my post here.. I hope no one takes offense to my opinions.. It's not meant to stir up any trouble or anything, so hopefully no one reads anything I wrote the wrong way, which I don't thinka nyone will but who knows.. Just wanted to throw my two sense in there.

-- Edited by LUbowlingJP on Monday 30th of November 2009 10:38:50 PM

I wouldn't mind hearing about how to make practices less crowded, yet allow everyone in the program a chance to bowl. I could use a good idea...

footpba wrote:

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I wouldn't mind hearing about how to make practices less crowded, yet allow everyone in the program a chance to bowl. I could use a good idea...

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This is easy.  Hold practices at Woodland.  The commute might suck, but there would be space for everyone.  And "shark" prolly wouldn't play off the gutter lol.




Since opinions of decrepit old alumni who were never any good themselves were asked for I'll respond.  I think this is utter nonsense and it all came about as a result of jealousy from other teams.  We have money, they don't.  We have busses they dont.  wah wah wah.  To stereotype, bowlers are a whiny bunch.  (I should know and exemplify it quite well)(see also: handicap, and every person who has ever bitched about only averaging 230)  Enough people finally did enough whining to the right people that they're getting a movement started, and considering the bass-ackward way the usbc usually does things they will unfortuantely probably get their way.  The entire competitive side of bowling is teetering on the edge of extinction--look at the pba, its pathetic and I don't see it existing much longer-- and influential people want to possibly turn away prospective players?   Yeah, thats good for everyone. 

However, I think there should be an unwritten 'common sense rule' if you will.  For instance, when I bowled, we were always THRILLED to see Emporia State (think current day Fontbonne but worse.  much worse.)  show up because that meant a nice avg diff inflation for the rest of the tournament.  Maybe some of the great stats I see being put up are a bit inflated by the H, I, J, K....W, X, Y teams.  Obviously I'm less in the know now than I ever was, so I can't tell if this is the universities 'put asses in beds who cares about results' philosophy or not, but 84 players is overkill.

Several years ago there was talk of forming a conference like the ahibc or whatever it is that Saginaw is involved with.  Get together with McKendree, Mobap, fontbonne, siue, western illinois, etc and form one.  who cares if its cbusa sanctioned or not, just make sure the tourneys are not held on a house shot.  Use that as the proving grounds if you will for those players who finished 2,000 pins behind the winners at tryouts and want to move up all the way to say 20th or whatever number player is on the fringes of the competitive teams and wants to solidify their place.  If someone can prove themselves worthy there, then promote them to the higher teams that travel to bigger sanctioned tournaments.  That way everyone is bowling something that matters, representing their school in competition against others, no one is cut, and rosters aren't arbitrarilly limited.

 

I really like this idea that "mmmmmm peanutbutter" has said i think that the tournament idea is a good one. Im not the best bowler out there, i know i have things i need to work on but it is very hard to do because of the overcrowding at practices. It is hard for me to make time out of my day to go and practice between everything i have to do like work and learn and homework and not to mention getting up for 8am classes. I think that we should split up practice time by teams so that everyone can get a good hour or so to focus on the things they need to work on.

Well,
I believe that for the individuals that only want to "bowl for fun" and "be apart of a team" should prolly be the ones to be cut, only if it comes down to that. Because we have seen that individuals who did not score that well in tryouts bowled really well throughout the season. This program is the most laid back one I've seen and yet our teams still kick A$$. In my opinion, cuts really shouldnt be enforced and if the tournaments we go to are able to let our Z TEAM in then so be it! Just because we have the same colored shirt and name does not mean that we are letting a certain team" lose out", because no matter what it still comes downt to the person that is willing to bowl and wants to bad enough.
All in all, we should all get a chance to bowl however make some changes to practices. maybe let the A/B team have their two hours then free bowl or give C -Z teams a different day or time.


Love SarahBell

"I was actually hoping that Karl would have separated the two and made them stand alone. Even though I did vote in favor of the proposal, mainly because of the 28 limit number,"


sounds like it was already voted on...guess we dont really have a say.  well that was interesting.

Daniel Raymond Spink...u told me that you would never post on here again....lol im just kidding. glad to see u contribute. U def have a good idea, just hard to get that to work with mechanics at the bowling alley. and prolly costly (using the machine and oil twice as much) But i do like it

Hey everybody, first time poster long time reader. The 28 person roster is probably the most idiotic idea i have ever heard, 1 because bowlers who have bad tryouts would then just be cut even though they are bowling well now, (such as posted before), and 2 i am one of those bowlers ha. But besides that I like the multiple practices Danny suggested so that it wont be too crowded at practice on a SPORT shot that Steve was saying ha. As to what Jenni P posted it was good it just bothered me when she said about the alternating the teams for tournaments because it might screw some people from being considered to an All American, where that is true, who cares. We are here to WIN A NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP. We need to work as a team. If you make all tournament team or All American, that's great congrats, but if you don't win the whole damn thing, what is the point? Sorry to get a little off topic but i feel like some people on the team have been more individual instead of team oriented. I'm fine with only taking 3 teams to a tourney because then we can go split squads like we are this year for some tournaments such as the boilermaker, but to make the teams only 28 people would be a big mistake. As far as the practices for the A and B team first, we can try that to see how it goes. I'm just curious about what if a person is struggling on a fresh shot? How will they get antiquate time to practice on that, I know I know St. Charles sport shot doesn't play like a sport shot at other places but it is better than the burn. Well I am done writing my novel ha, just wanted to get my voice out.

Hopefully this rule on limiting bowlers/teams will not pass.  Everyone has worked hard to build this program.  It would be a shame to have that thrown away.

Mike Solovic
LU Bowling
99-02

-- Edited by M Solovic on Tuesday 1st of December 2009 10:56:06 PM

-- Edited by M Solovic on Tuesday 1st of December 2009 10:58:07 PM

LUbowlingJP wrote:

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Jordan, like I stated.. my opinion was not meant to make anyone mad.. But whether people want to admit it or not, everyone, whether they're on the A team or the Z team, always shoots to make the all tournament team as well as having their team take first... i was simply stating that by sending certain teams to certain tournaments could end up screwing people over who would like to achieve not only a spot on the all american team, but a national championship as well because you need a certain amount of games to have a chance at that honor.. like i said, my opinion wasnt to make anyone mad or upset anyone and apparently you took it wrong, but im not going to get into this topic more cause i could talk about this forever and i know that people dont believe my opinions when i state them anyways so there's no point in wasting my breath.. all in all, cutting people would suck and practices should be more ogranized.. that's all people need to get out of my post.

-- Edited by LUbowlingJP on Tuesday 1st of December 2009 10:39:00 PM

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Jenny, we leave late for tourneys because of the coaches most of the time, not the athletes.  We have a 3:00 depart time because that's before the traffic picks up for rush hour.  Phil will probably be late for his own wedding, but most of the time his delay is job related.