What does everyone think about re-signing with them?
My thoughts: I bowl better having a varied arsenal. Brunswick hasn't given me enough variation top to bottom to keep them in my bag when I travel to events outside college. I have been using Storm the most of late and mostly because they hook me up the most. I am comfy having them/roto in the bag if we could some how pull out a deal like we have now. Problem there is that we won't get as many balls and I know how you guys love to spread the balls out instead of giving them to the bowlers who are actually bring back the checks to the school.
My vote is to go with whomever gives us the most equipment. We didn't have any problem winning 1st semester. I doubt 2nd semester had anything to do with the equipment so we really don't have any problems with Brunswick.
What do the rest of you guys think? Girls, coaches, newbs?
We have tried to put this issue to bed, but it keeps being brought up.
There are no plans to change at all. Now that we've been sponsored by Brunswick for two years and have a huge amount of their equipment in our program, we should be in an even better position to benefit from the familiarity we have with that equipment.
There's no perfect way to distribute the balls at the beginning of the year, but since the "varsity" team is required to throw Brunswick, an attempt is made to get the sponsor equipment into the hands of those on that team and within shooting distance, as soon as possible.
For new players to the program so you know, there is generally a semester grace period to allow time for a Brunswick arsenal to be developed, but it makes sense to build that arsenal as quickly as possible since a majority of tournaments are in the fall.
So, there's really no need to continue to debate the issue or we may find ourselves without ANY sponsorships to worry about...
well although coach phil said there is no reason to continue this debate i am sorry to say (and i hope this doesnt make phil or dolph to mad) i do have my two cents even if i am outta the program by now.
Brunswick is great amazing equiptment...unfortunately it is so characterstic of doing what it does, its very hard to get different looks out of it. Obiviously we have proven that we can win with it time and time again and so has Wichita...BUT if anyone in the world saw the match with us vs. webber at nationals there is NO WAY IN THE WORLD you can say we werent at a disadvantage. we bowled and threw the ball just as good but cause we couldnt get angle, we couldnt carry. NOW im not saying that you cant win with Brunwsick...BUT your gonna need some specialist or Brunswick "know-alls" to come in and help out with laying out balls for people on the team and different surfaces to help out so we dont get thrown in that position again.
ive even had this long conversation with Brett (who might have been most impacted by this deal because of his massive forward role)...and he even agrees that yes we can win with brunswick...but we both highly agree that it would be such a huge boost to actually have Brunswick reps and specialist to come in and help layout balls and work with us on surfaces.
hate it or love it...thats my two cents.
TOWN
p.s. thanks again for an amazing 4 years...cant wait to come back for my last year of college to watch you all dominate once again and help coach as much as i can
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"If hard work pays off then easy work is worthless My work habit ain't no habit man, I do it on purpose I push myself to the limit so my talent'll surface"
I like Dean's 2 cents on it brunswick has its benefits and that comes early in the match where on the fresh the balls are amazing and also playing the the right, but if you look at it most of the tourneys have matches for the finals and by then you get so deep you need balls that retain energy and turn off the break point on roll off of it. If we had a company such as Storm/Roto we can grind out the earlier games and when they dry up we will be able to score with the best and most likely better than the rest. The **** with the B on it doesn't get the job done when you have to get in, we can hit the pocket, leave 10pins all day, and hope for carry on most shots, or we can get a company that makes the corner and strike at will. But whatever is decided I'm still gonna be there to bowl and win a National Championship.
Tommy, you need to retake English comp. That hurt a little to read but I mostly agree.
Another thing is that your stopping me from signing a ball contract with another company. Not that it is relevant at all on this forum.
I had no clue this issue was put to bed. I thought I would have some input before you guys just decided for the team and I. I am glad Tommy and Ryan agreed. The only thing is that we have an advantage on the fresh so we just have to kill them in the front and beat them with our skill on the back. Lucky for the team coming in is that they double my rev rate so they will have decent reaction then.
Since you guys are making these decisions for us how come we haven't signed with any grips company's? Vise and Turbo love to sign people and I think we have enough names to get that done. No shoes, shirts, grip sacks...Brunswick is really hooking us up.
I totally agree with with the 3 of u and i was also surprised that we were suppose to put this issue to bed. Was there a reason y we didnt get bragg or benoit to come down last year like we did before so we could talk to them about layouts and problems we were running into? I do like deans idea of maybe signing with a grip company and ur right pretty much all we get from brunswick is balls, how hard would it be to get some accessories and stuff.
Anyways thats my 2 cents hope you guys are having a good summer.
Yeah yeah, I don't go there anymore. But, like Ryan, I am an outspoken individual, so, here is my two cents:
I think a combination of what Ryan and Dean said was my complaint all along. The biggest problem I ever had with the contract, wasn't that it was with Brunswick...it's that it ever existed. I know that it gives notoriety to the program....it gets the name Lindenwood on the map.
But at what expense to the bowlers? What does it do for the people actually in the program? It limits them as to what they can have in their bag. The only time Brunswick is preferred is when the pattern is as slick in the heads as it is at the end of the pattern. The pattern cannot taper north to south. Oh, and the backends have to be clean. Super clean. That is not the majority of college patterns. Hell, its hardly any of them.
Dean, you are right. You bowl better with a varied arsenal. So do I. So does Ryan. Everyone does. Whenever anyone heard be talk bad about Brunswick, if they heard the end of the rant, I would throw in the disclaimer that, it wasn't 100% against Brunswick. Just the limitation.
Dean, you are right. The balls should be given to the bread winners. No offense to ANYONE. It's just how it is.
Dean, I disagree with one thing. If this company is forcing you to "kill them in the front" and rely on "skill" in the end, then it's not making your job any easier. How's this? I'll give you a 6 ball arsenal for a 20 game tournament. You can throw any ball you want. For 10 games. Then you gotta throw Brunswick, while everyone else can throw whatever the heck they want. Makes like harder, doesn't it? Bowlers should be able to change their equipment to fit their game. I should not have to change my game because of the equipment.
Ryan, I think you and I have had the same conversation, but because I didn't bowl this year, it's not fresh in your mind. People came to me second semester of my Junior year, and said, "It doesn't look like the Brunswick stuff is affecting your team at all! You all look pretty good." You know why we looked good? Because we had a team of great bowlers. Imagine how great we would've looked had we not had to "manage" our equipment.
As for the Brunswick rep's coming to see us....they helped a lot that one time they were there. But where were they this year? Lindenwood, as much as I hate to say it, is Brunswick's "B" team. And any team before us / after us will be. Wichita was throwing the new stuff before it was even out. Did LU have those balls? No. Now, why LU doesn't get the same affection, I don't know. But it needs to be sorted out. The same would be expected if LU signed with Storm, Roto, or Ebonite.
Randy and Phil....the Lindenwood program opened so many doors for me, and I cannot thank you enough for the opportunity to bowl and attend college there. As coaches, you must do what is right for the program. Obviously, looking at rankings, tournament wins, and incoming players, you have done your job. A great job, actually. If the "B" contract is what appealed to the new bowlers, if that was the reason for them coming, then it has worked. But the bowlers must do what is right for them.
Lastly, you need to figure out what it is that Wichita is doing that LU isn't. I know, I know, that's been said by numerous programs throughout the years...difference is, LU has as much talent, if not more, than Wichita. I whole-heartedly believe that. So why are they winning Titles?
everyone pretty much knows how i feel about brunswick. and the bit about brunswick giving us a great deal...........I know for a fact every single wichita St bowler does not pay for a single "B" bowling ball that they have in their bag. The coaches give them whatever they feel they need...Rocio last year got almost 2 of every ball that was available to them.
REPS- If we are staying with "B" then we need them to come talk to us or be available thru emails or soemthing to talk to. While i was at the open this year i talked to Benoit and he got me a ball to do exactly what i wanted one to do the whole year.( clear the heads) still didnt corner well but it was his first try im sure if i put surface on it or something it would have done exactly what asked. Because i know myself i spent close to $1000 on "B" stuff this year just taking guesses at how to lay them out and praying they would work for me.
and whats everyones opinion on having 6 AM's about once every two weeks?
Ryan, agreed. Sometimes a ball company is a disadvantage. Not just Brunswick, but any ball company. Success of a company is dynamic; always changing.
Daniel, this major difference between us and WSU is they have full-time coaches. I feel it would have been easier to keep track of students studies if I could have more time to donate to the program. However, coaching for Phil and I is a labor of love, and we have other jobs to pay the bills
Brett, I have been told by the Brunswick rep that we have the exact deal that WSU has. What their school pays for and how they distribute them is their business. I will say that we concentrate on everyone in the program, not just the top 12. That is the way we do it at Lindenwood. From Dr Evans down to Phil and me. Frankly, I like our way better.
Conclusion I reiterate what Phil said; we are under a Brunswick contract. Any speculation of change on a public forum is rude. Regardless of your preference of the equipment, they have donated over $10,000 a year to this program. No other ball company has stepped up. Brunswick deserves you respect and gratitude.
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"It's not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
Well next week is Junior World Team Challenge and myself and Brad are on the same team. I know Council will be there to watch and Storm/Roto is sponsoring the event this year and having their own kind of demo days. My team is sponsored by Storm and Dean told me he will be out there towards the end of the tournament. I was wondering if you would mind if we talked to them and discuss options with them about a contract for LU. The only problem would be is I don't know if any of us know the real numbers of money and balls Brunswick gives us and what we would be able to settle for in return if they cannot match Brunswick's contract.
lol...o come on randy we should be able to talk about anything on here...this is like our own private barber shop. accordin to ced the entertainer u can say anything in the barber shop and no one is off limits...ha
JUST a tid bit of info.
boys came in...
1st in 05 3rd in 06 3rd in 07
...without a contract
only bowled thursday and friday in 08 and 09
...with a contract.
now this may be irrelevant information or can be taken how ever you wanna look at it...but no offense to the previous teams, (two of which i was on in 06 and 07) but i think our team the last two years has even had more talent. so either we caught bad breaks two years in a row, lost all of our drive to win, lost our fundamentals, or just couldnt match up...im not saying it was anyone one of those and im not trying to make excuses...just another one of my thoughts as a previous player.
-- Edited by Town on Monday 15th of June 2009 05:05:25 PM
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"If hard work pays off then easy work is worthless My work habit ain't no habit man, I do it on purpose I push myself to the limit so my talent'll surface"
Ryan, I cordially disagree. We cant quite discuss everything. During the Boxerman era, the forum had to be disbanded it got so bad. Thats not where we are at here, but I would like to keep it respectful to a company that has been great to us.
Your point on the last two years in very interesting. Very glaring indeed.
__________________
"It's not who we are underneath, but what we do that defines us."
ok so scratch my comment bout being able to talk about anything...but the stats about nationals are legit.
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"If hard work pays off then easy work is worthless My work habit ain't no habit man, I do it on purpose I push myself to the limit so my talent'll surface"
I certainly don't have any problem with our current contract. I will always throw whatever is free. I just thought that the coaches shared are opinions but I was mistaken.
Well this topic sounds familiar. Here is what needs to happen:
A. Within the first month of school, whether it be before or after tryouts, Bragg or Benoit or whoever is available needs to come to LU for some classroom/on lane instruction. I know you bowling heads know that there are new pieces to the Brunswick line. It looks like there will be many new student-athletes to the program, some maybe more knowledgeable than others about Brunswick and equipment in general. There also some who will think they know but they don't. To alleviate that, the professionals should be called upon.
B. If it is found that these individuals may need a fee or something, get out and fund-raise. Getting someone out to the program seems to be numero uno on the list of potential barriers then there shouldn't be any problem pulling the old 50/50 raffle during Major City, Monday night trio, etc. And that is just St. Chuck's we are talking about. A bowl-a-thon, hey maybe the old carwash deal might work, maybe a couple weekend trips to Six Flags when school starts. I know some didn't want to fund-raise during my days and some did. All of those who want sweats and warm-ups and what not, there are some options.
C. Work together to make this happen. If this is what you all feel you really need to bring the title back to LU, then make it happen. EVERYBODY! I know that will be hard to do but if this is what you need then make it happen.
All it takes is one call or email to get the ball rolling. If you have to hound them like job applicants to potential job employers than do it. Lindenwood is officially apart of the Brunswick family via signing on the dotted line going on the third year. They should not turn you down especially before Tour season starts. If you really want and need this, then start the process. Who knows maybe they can send Randy and Phil a couple new pieces for the team to try early.
Also in my opinion, I do think you should get some kind of shirt/tote/bag help. We had Brunswick shirts in 2007, very nice gold shirt with great embroidery. Now they weren't free but I was just tired of wearing blah shirts as well as others, so I asked the team, got their opinion and we hit Brunswick up and Storm for that matter. The point being, Brunswick helped us out and we weren't signed. No reason they shouldn't be able to help you now going into the third season of your deal.
Oh and uh... Diandra Asbaty anyone? Brunswick staffer, pro title, multiple gold medals, one of the top female bowlers in the world. I think she would be good for both the guys and girls for obvious reasons.
-- Edited by E on Thursday 18th of June 2009 02:21:27 PM
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EWJR
03'-07' 07'-09' Single Pins Are Like Free Throws, You Just Don't Miss Them!
E, Diandra was straight hating on us with her commentary at nationals lol... don't get me wrong, i know where you're going with her and i've met her a few times seeing as she's from our area.. i'm just saying i'm not sure how some of our girls would feel about her right now lol... Brett, I'm gonna be honest.. I hate the idea of 6am practice.. I love practicing, but not that early in the morning.. 9am, ok I can handle, but not 6am.. I feel that we can do the same stuff you guys did in the mornings during our evening practices as well.. and I'm pretty sure you wouldn't get enough people down for 6am practices.. If we aboslutely have to do them, then I will, but I'd rather not. As far as Brunswick goes.. Everyone pretty much knows how I feel on Brunswick.. I've thrown only 2 bowling balls in my life that haven't been Brunswick.. I love the B and am very happy we're signed with them. However, I do see where other people are coming and have talked to many people on the issue of our Brunswick contract.. First of all before I get into it, I'd just like to point out the fact that basically the top 3-5 teams in the nation are sponsored by Brunswick, so there's really no reason to blame Brunswick on how we finish because apparently, the other top ranked teams as well don't have a problem with it. I do think it'd be a great idea if we can get Bragg or Benoit to come in and have that little in class discussion as well as watching all of us bowl. I know last time they all came in, us girls weren't very happy because all the guys took up their time, so we really didn't get much feedback. It'd be a good idea to have them give every bowl their opinion on what Brunswick equipment would work best for them. Personally, I'd take their advice and talk to my coach about it because I base all my decisions on what my coach feels best for me. Same goes with drilling.. So yeah their opinion to me is very important and I'd like to know what they think would work best for me. Then after all that's done I'd go back and talk with my coach on taking certain actions to get what I need drilled up according to Bragg or Benoit. I think the guys would be a lot happier if they could figure out what layouts to drill up and what not. Maybe if Bragg or Benoit talked about that as well, our team would be a little happier to throw Brunswick. Like I said, I love Brunswick and am really happy with the sponsorship.. I do feel we tend to get stuff later than other teams, but hey at least we're getting stuff. I do think we should get a side sponsorship like nike or adidas or dexter or something.. It'd be nice to get some new shoes every couple years or get deals on polos so we can get nicer ones at a cheaper price.. But it's just an idea.. Just thought I'd give my opinion since none of the girls have yet.
I think that LU for the most part brings in a certain type of bowler. Its the bowler I am and the bowler I want on my team.
If we wanted a bunch of study bowling 12 hours a day kids then we would do that kind of stuff but for the most part none of are here for that. Wichita produces super stars because they attract super stars to their programs. Every top bowler on their team was a national champion at something before they went to WSU.
We came here because we want to bowl competitive in college but want a life too. We have successfully accomplished that and even more. I am done complaining about how we do things because I would not want to be in any other program in the county. For me...it was easy to choose LU over WSU and whether we get ball reps to come down or not We are still gonna crush at LU.
"I am done complaining about how we do things because I would not want to be in any other program in the county."
That is a good thing you picked LU over Webster University and St Charles community college.
Nice lookin blog E
See what Brunswick does this first semester. They have had hard times with the economy the way it is. Maybe if it picks back up they can focus more on college bowling. I'm sure if questions are raised to Brunswick to get someone in to explain the new equipment/layouts they will send someone in to get them answered. They signed LU because they get recognition at tournaments which make potential sales so why wouldn't they send someone down to answer the questions of the bowlers.
I heard that if you have a ball contract with another company you don't have to use Brunswick in college play. I guess Mark Buffa when he went to WSU used Storm. Can anyone confirm this?
probably just have to put a stipulation in your contract that u can throw brunswick during college events cause the school is on staff. That would be my guess
I think Buffa was throwing the B the last time I saw him bowl which was four years ago. The only person I have ever seen throw anything other than the B was Lambert and that was when he first got to WSU.
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EWJR
03'-07' 07'-09' Single Pins Are Like Free Throws, You Just Don't Miss Them!
