Results and Practices...

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

Results and Practices...

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

Phil just emailed me about leagues counting toward a practice. Thoughts, opinions??

the bus · Hi... I'm a N00B

I think that league should count as practice how many games can you bowl in 45 minutes anyway? At least with work that would help me out again.

Witt

Panic Attack · Posting Guru

It has always been my impression that league is not practice. Granted, you are bowling, but it's not practice. It has been my experience that the best practice comes from when you're not playing for score, and so are then free to play any line you want, however you want, and to try new things. I think that if you are playing for score, especially in a league setting, you are just trying to throw strikes, and trying new things and attempting to fix old habbits that are hindering your performance cannot be done.

Personally, I think that if you're bowling a league, then that's your choice, but you need time for practice as well.

stiks · Hi... I'm a N00B

I believe that league should be counted as a practice. On mondays nights there is a YABA sactioned sport shot league. There is already a few of us that bowl in it, but that is my opinion.

lil snozz

Hoop · Posting Guru

I agree with what Panek says completely. At the same time though, at least for me personally, on Thursday nights when I do fill in the last thing I want to do afterwards is bowl more. It's tough to tell really. Foot said already he got better by just throwing a ball down the lane (granted bowling league is not the same as bowling 100 games per week). Going by that logic then league nights should be counted towards practice time. I'm not saying that anyone "just throws the ball down the lane" while bowling league.

I can see it both ways really. League bowling helps because there is an emphasis on making shots. You are trying to win and the competitive edge is definitely there. However, a league shot is hardly the same as the shots we bowl on during practice. It is really tougher to see what a person is learning while bowling league.

All bowling can help a person improve whether it is a league situation, tournament situation, or just individual or group practice. So I would say let it count. Just my two cents.

hanke · Obsessive Posting Disorder

Since there are four pratices and (plese foot correct me if i am wrong) we are counting any pratice time, i would hesitate to count league. I do understand the Thursday crew not wanting to bowl again on thursday night, but then you only need to do it three times. dunno

philmark11 · So L33T It Hurts

For the record, I'm not suggesting that three nights of league is a substitute for a week's worth of practice. I believe a combination is a good thing, though. My thought was to have leagues (however many you bowl) take the place of only one practice session, still leaving two required sign-in sessions. There are some competitive leagues out there that can only help our focus "when the lights come on." I think it's good to apply what you learn in practice in a competitive environment at some point before tournament times...especially if that league has some type of head to head element, is scratch and/or on a sport shot. Unless you're practicing for hours at a time, it's very difficult to duplicate how lanes break down, whether sport or house. Making adjustments as the shot changes over the course of team games is an important skill. Plus, the pacing is totally different from in practice. Instead of making shot after shot, in a league, you're usually making one every 5 minutes...just like we do at tournaments.

At some point, everything you're working on in practice has to be applied in a competitive setting. If you think of a league as "practice" competition, then I think it can only help when we're out of town at tournaments.

Phil

hanke · Obsessive Posting Disorder

quote:
Originally posted by: philmark11
"For the record, I'm not suggesting that three nights of league is a substitute for a week's worth of practice. I believe a combination is a good thing, though. My thought was to have leagues (however many you bowl) take the place of only one practice session, still leaving two required sign-in sessions. There are some competitive leagues out there that can only help our focus "when the lights come on." I think it's good to apply what you learn in practice in a competitive environment at some point before tournament times...especially if that league has some type of head to head element, is scratch and/or on a sport shot. Unless you're practicing for hours at a time, it's very difficult to duplicate how lanes break down, whether sport or house. Making adjustments as the shot changes over the course of team games is an important skill. Plus, the pacing is totally different from in practice. Instead of making shot after shot, in a league, you're usually making one every 5 minutes...just like we do at tournaments. At some point, everything you're working on in practice has to be applied in a competitive setting. If you think of a league as "practice" competition, then I think it can only help when we're out of town at tournaments. Phil"

for what it is worth, i agree with this i think

Panic Attack · Posting Guru

i'll agree with that.

Hoop · Posting Guru

That sounds good to me as well

Suzy Q · Posting Guru

I agree too!

sluggs · Regular

I think that bowling league should count as practice because when u work during the day after class then go bowl league, u have no time to practice in between or after. So I think it should count.

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

quote:
Originally posted by: sluggs
"I think that bowling league should count as practice because when u work during the day after class then go bowl league, u have no time to practice in between or after. So I think it should count. "

Ah, did you notice the part above about how work shouldn't come before pratice if you're a scholarship athlete?

I do see your point thought.

F0RUM JESuS · Protect & Serve

Ah, did you notice the part above about how work shouldn't come before pratice if you're a scholarship athlete?

I do see your point thought.
--------------------------------------

while i agree with that statement, i dont either.

i get a full ride at lindenwood because my dad is disabled is unable too work. People unlike me only get a certain value scholarship. Students still must pay for books, gas, food, clothes, possibly the rest of their tuition, or maybe even help out with payments at their actual home. so i think its unfair that just because youre getting money from a school that you should just drop your life and devote yourself completely school/bowling/whatever. there are students out there who have to work in order to get by. and if you are going to punish them because theyre making money instead of coming to every practice.. simply do not take them to tier ones, sectionals, nationals. do not tell them to just quit school, hand your scholarship back in, etc.....that just makes people feel like nothing and it probably doesnt give you a very good reflecting image as a coach in their eyes. i understand you want to cut down on the bull**** .....but there are better ways to go about it then telling everyone to just quit.

another thing i wanted to point out...we're actually at this school to "learn" believe it or not ...bowling is just an added bonus. school work should always come before bowling. and not to bust any heads...but our team lacks good grades....im sure there are quite a few who are barely pushing 2.0. so yeah...im sure bowling 100 games a week would greatly improve us..but i have to ask you something...what kind of schedule did you have when you were bowling 100 games a week?

one last thing....we get our tournament schedule like a month or so in advance before our actual first tournament...so the people who do work on a regular basis have more than enough time to organize their work schedule around their bowling schedule....there shouldnt be any reason why someone who is in the top 12 on the mens and girls teams to never attend a tournament because of work. if they do...my above statement about sectionals & nationals should come into play.

i have more to say...but im not ready to say it at the moment.

Suzy Q · Posting Guru

I agree with fj b/c I am just like him my dad is disabled and I have to work b/c my mom can't pay for everything. I pay for my own car, insurance, phone and school stuff! My mom does a lot for me so I have to help out too and not having a job... well that means I wouldn't be going to lindenwood much longer!

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

quote:
Originally posted by: F0RUM JESuS
"Ah, did you notice the part above about how work shouldn't come before pratice if you're a scholarship athlete? I do see your point thought. -------------------------------------- while i agree with that statement, i dont either. i get a full ride at lindenwood because my dad is disabled is unable too work. People unlike me only get a certain value scholarship. Students still must pay for books, gas, food, clothes, possibly the rest of their tuition, or maybe even help out with payments at their actual home. so i think its unfair that just because youre getting money from a school that you should just drop your life and devote yourself completely school/bowling/whatever. there are students out there who have to work in order to get by. and if you are going to punish them because theyre making money instead of coming to every practice.. simply do not take them to tier ones, sectionals, nationals. do not tell them to just quit school, hand your scholarship back in, etc.....that just makes people feel like nothing and it probably doesnt give you a very good reflecting image as a coach in their eyes. i understand you want to cut down on the bull**** .....but there are better ways to go about it then telling everyone to just quit. another thing i wanted to point out...we're actually at this school to "learn" believe it or not ...bowling is just an added bonus. school work should always come before bowling. and not to bust any heads...but our team lacks good grades....im sure there are quite a few who are barely pushing 2.0. so yeah...im sure bowling 100 games a week would greatly improve us..but i have to ask you something...what kind of schedule did you have when you were bowling 100 games a week? one last thing

Good post, but I got a rebuttal;

1) I have said many times that school work come first. I would rather you become great students and average bowlers, if I had to choose. However, I would rather you be great at both.

2) I'm not saying anything about quitting your job or putting you in shackles that would deprive you of a "life". I want 3-45 minutes practices sessions out of you. This should be a higher priority than your job. You can take the 3 practices anytime you like, as long as lanes are available. BTW, I will NEVER tell you to quit school; I would rather you quit the team than school. You may not believe this, but 47-year-old men understand the financial obligation that life requires. No condescending remarks to remind me are necessary.

3) About bowling 100 games a week; I averaged 2-3 hours a day on the lanes just bowling. Back then, I also lift weights and ran 3 miles day. I would go to other centers and bowl (and pay) just so I could understand lane conditions better. My life back then was spent in a bowling center. That was my job. In fact, I went through a marriage because my ex-wife said I spent too much time bowling. However, I don’t know if I would like everyone to practice that much. Bowlers with Higher rev rates shouldn’t practice as much as I did. 4-5 games a practices session is fine. I’m not asking you to be me, unless you want to be a successful pro bowler.

4) Last, about my “image”! My job at the school is to teach bowling and prepare you for life. The opinion that you have of me is secondary. Remember also that all of us on the coaching staff have degrees before you post “we're actually at this school to "learn" believe it or not” manure. We have done the time and lived the life you are now before you. Did you come here just for the academic opportunity? I am sure there are plenty of schools around where you live that you could receive a good education. Or did you come here to be part of a winning bowling team also?

What I’m saying is why can’t you spare a little over 2 hours to practice, is that too much to ask? There isn’t two hours a week that you spent somewhere (on the phone, on the computer, watching TV, hanging out with friends, etc.) that you could find the time to bowl. Vince Lombardi once said “that the quality of your life is directly related to your dedication to excellence, no matter your chosen profession.” This isn’t about me, this is about you! It’s easy to find an excuse not to go to practice. That in part is what has happened to our teams. We are bowling at pace not of our talent, but of our mediocre training regimen. Do you believe you are bowling the best you can? I had a theory when I was on tour; I knew I wasn’t the most talented, so my goal was never let another bowler out work me. It just like life, there are millions of people my age just getting by because they didn’t want to sacrifice their 2 hours a night of TV to change their life for the better. All I am asking is a little over 2 hours a week to dedicate to excellence.

BTW, the grades are better for the bowling team than other sports at LU. I am proud of the way the bowling team has preformed in the classroom.

F0RUM JESuS · Protect & Serve

My comment about the "we're actually at this school to learn believe it or not" ....that "manure" wasnt directed towards you. That was directed towards every student athlete who read that post. We have had grade problems in the past, and even some right now. But if you say our grades have improved... more power to us! And Randy...I never questioned your intelligence.

I the only things i was in the air about with you was the comments made like "if its too hard to make practices, hand your scholarship back in" ...that kind of stuff. Those are comments Box made while he was in charge. And while I understand the importance of bowlers making practices like they are supposed too...I just didnt think it was a fair statement. Some kids have it harder than others, and being at college might possibly be the best thing that student has in their life. So all im sayin is, if a student doesnt meet your requirements by like only making 2 practices a week or something, just dont take them to important tournaments. Dont give them the benefits you would someone who has been there all season for you. Keep them on a shorter leesh. We've had bowlers miss big tournaments because they wanted to go bowl some money tournaments. When I was interested in going to Saginaw before I even knew who or what Lindenwood was, Dirty Dan told me every time Bill or whoever went to a money tournament scheduled on a college tournament weekend that Saginaw would be attending, Bill or whoever would get suspended for a tournament or two. So what I'm saying is, if you are going to discipline based on commitments, I think it should work full circle....not just bits and pieces. I agree with you that bowlers on scholarships are required to fufill their primary obligations...and if they cant...then deal with them accordingly.

3 practices arent much people. Like i already posted...i started coming at 1-2pm just so I can bowl pretty much alone. I get more work done. Not as many distractions...unless you count Halwe a distraction (jk)...but he is there for me and hes there for you to help when you want him to. As quoted in Formula 51 ..."you must find your center!" ..go bowl!!! If you cant make practices AT ALL during the week, then I would have to agree with Randy and say quit the team! You obviously have too much goin on and no time for bowling. And those are the ppl who shouldnt benefit from what the school gives us when we go away for tournaments.

I think I have cleared this up now? but im going anyway cause I have steaks on the grill....neener! bbl.

chasediggity

Suzy Q · Posting Guru

I agree with chase and Randy I have a lot to do with school and working everyday but I still find time to get in 3 practices and bowl league one night a week and still have good grades. You may not see me at the the practices b/c I practice on my own and I go to the bowling alley around 11am or 12 and Randy and/or Mike have helped me at these times! I have found it better for me to practice by myself my game has imporved a lot.... so maybe some of u that can't make practices should try it!

Coach Dog · Posting Guru

For those of you interested...

I have a practice regimen typed up and Randy has copies (if you want me to email it to you, send me your address). There are three basic practices: 30 minutes, 45 minutes, and 60 minutes. They're boring; hell, practicing is boring. But, (as I used to say when I was still "official") the school pays your scholarships for practice time; tournaments are the reward. (I've also heard it said that you can train a mule all you want, it still won't win the Kentucky Derby; that about sums up my pro career!)

If you can throw 30-40 shots a day, you'll be surprised how quickly you can get sharp. We'll work on the mental side when y'all get back.

Oh, yeah, be glad that you're not NCAA...those students are not allowed to work during their season.

mmmmm peanutbutter · Obsessive Posting Disorder

..

-- Edited by mmmmm peanutbutter at 01:02, 2004-12-15

Tower · Obsessive Posting Disorder

quote:

Originally posted by: mmmmm peanutbutter
"We must learn to respect our elders if we are ever going to become the best bowling program in the world!!! The wonderful and generous university that we are so priveliged to attend gives us discounts for the bowling talent we are so blessed to have been granted.

WOW, you are the last person I would expect to post about how wonderful the university is when you are the one that bitches about it all the time. I just find it really humorous.

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

Brian, great post;

I will keep in mind the points you made about Saginaw. You're fun to read even if I don't agree with everything you say. The part about Box, well maybe he wasn't all wrong. I like much of what he did while was coach. However, the statement he made that I disagreed the most was when he said "I will be here after you bowlers are long gone"! Not only was it somewhat arrogant, it was false. I'm not pretentious enough to think that. This program is, and has always been about student-athletes like you. In the end, it will be the current bowlers on the program who decide it's fate.

twig..er..ah..Tower; I believe that Mr. Butter is being sarcastic. My bullchit detector went off while I read that.

BTW, FJ; is there a way to make this thread a sticky? I really want more input about league counting as practice. I am leaning in favor of it, but I would like to read more opinions...

randall

-- Edited by footpba at 16:36, 2004-12-14

philmark11 · So L33T It Hurts

Ooo...my first "sticky" forum post!

This forum is really hopping! Good to see! I like the interchange of thoughts and ideas, although sometimes I think we over-react to things a bit, but if it will get the team on the same page towards a common goal, then I like everything about it...

Another two cents regarding practices and such...

I totally agree...three practice sessions a week is not too much to ask for, especially if we count your leagues as one of them (which I think is a good idea) and especially if you can make them up on your own if you can't make the formal practice sessions.

From a personal stand-point as a Women's specific coach, and since I unfortunately can only make the one practice session a week Thursday night, I'd love to see everyone from the women's side make it to that session, unless humanly impossible. I think those who regularly attended that session can attest that I truly attempted to have an organized and constructive practice most of the time. (I'll admit I wasn't always successful). I would also like to continue to encourage the guys to attend as well, and participate in the same drills...or whatever I have planned. That way, everyone will get the most out of it!

Once the spring semester starts up again, we'll be rolling through four tournaments and Sectionals will be upon us quicker than we expect. In terms of the Women's team(and I'm speaking of all of you, I'm proud of what we've accomplished and I think we're a better team now overall than we were in August, but we still have much room for improvement and I'm confident that we CAN improve quite a bit, especially if we put as much energy into our bowling efforts and chemistry as we have recently on this forum!

I'll say it again...there's nothing like the college bowling experience. Enjoy it for all it's worth while you can!

...and that's all I'm gonna say about that... (for now)

phil

hanke · Obsessive Posting Disorder

I have to agree with what has been said so far about pratice. I am not perfect but in college i praticed at least once a day and almost never had a coach (if you watch me you can tell i had no help on the mental game). I did it not out of some loyalty to a team tho, i did it because i like bowling and wanted to get better. I wish i could go twice a week now, but often am too busy to do so. Counting one league as pratice is ok, i don't like it but i am a stick in the mud in that way, it is how i was raised. I feel that we should try implementing Dog's regiment into pratice tho. There needs to be structure available for those that need it. It is not a slam, some people (myself included) do better if there is some kind of guideline to follow (or break).

Now i need to wash the stiky off my hands

(that sounded so much better in my head!)

Hank

Hoop · Posting Guru

quote:

Originally posted by: hanke
"I have to agree with what has been said so far about pratice. I am not perfect but in college i praticed at least once a day and almost never had a coach (if you watch me you can tell i had no help on the mental game). I did it not out of some loyalty to a team tho, i did it because i like bowling and wanted to get better. I wish i could go twice a week now, but often am too busy to do so. Counting one league as pratice is ok, i don't like it but i am a stick in the mud in that way, it is how i was raised. I feel that we should try implementing Dog's regiment into pratice tho. There needs to be structure available for those that need it. It is not a slam, some people (myself included) do better if there is some kind of guideline to follow (or break). Now i need to wash the stiky off my hands (that sounded so much better in my head!) Hank"

You had no help on your mental game???? NO WAY!

Coach Dog · Posting Guru

Hoop, he's bowled with me for much too long...any mental stability he once had is history.

Plus, he's a teacher...

hanke · Obsessive Posting Disorder

quote:
Originally posted by: Coach Dog
"Hoop, he's bowled with me for much too long...any mental stability he once had is history. Plus, he's a teacher..."

An unemployed teacher at that.

footpba · So L33T It Hurts

quote:
Originally posted by: F0RUM JESuS
and not to bust any heads...but our team lacks good grades....im sure there are quite a few who are barely pushing 2.0. so yeah...

BTW, the grades are better for the bowling team than other sports at LU. I am proud of the way the bowling team has preformed in the classroom.

Well, maybe I spoke to soon. I've got the grades and many of you have done well, but there are some surprises. Several of you presently will not be participating in the tournament schedule this spring. One is no longer in school. I have talked to those who had problems, so I'm not going to make a bigger deal out of it than it is. I will say my apologies to all knowing Forum Jesus. I shalt not doubt your wisdom on this subject again.

F0RUM JESuS · Protect & Serve

no apology required Randall.

but i will say this.....

I made a 3.25 for the semester.... (sticks my tongue out at everyone, even if your gpa was higher, i dont care!)

hahahaha its not white~~~>